““It’s kind of fun to do the impossible” is a quote attributed to Walt Disney . An artist, entertainer and master of innovation, he was always thinking ahead. As Disney sought financing to develop his new theme park, he turned his eyes to the small screens starting to populate the family rooms of American homes in the early 1950s. By 1954, ABC had aired the first episode of a television show simply titled “ Disneyland ,” a program aimed at both captivating its audience and promoting its founder’s multiple projects. When the amusement park of the same name opened to the public in 1955, visionary engineers and designers transformed technologies of the postwar assembly line into extraordinary entertainment experiences. In his new book, Disneyland and the Rise of Automation: How Technology Created the Happiest Place on Earth , Roland Betancourt examines how the Magic Kingdom introduced the world to the large-scale realities of industrial automation. The UC Irvine Chancellor’s Professor of art history put seven years of archival research into a book that appeals to fans of Disney and popular culture as well as people interested in engineering and corporate histories. In this episode of The UC Irvine Podcast, Betancourt will discuss his unique journey from medievalist to authoritative voice on the technology powering the Happiest Place on Earth and connect 1950s anxieties about automation with today’s concerns about artificial intelligence. Just in time for summer, he’ll tell us what we shouldn’t miss the next time we visit the theme park, and he’ll share why he’s enthused to return to teaching the class he created – Disneyland: Art, Architecture and Operation – this fall. “Inevitable Hope,” the music that introduces this episode, was provided by RKVC via the audio library in YouTube Studio. Betancourt recorded the various sounds from rides and attractions at Disneyland during a visit to the theme park. To get the latest episodes of The UC Irvine Podcast delivered automatically, subscribe at Apple Podcasts or Spotify . TRANSCRIPT Cara Capuano/The UC Irvine Podcast: From the University of California, Irvine, I’m Cara Capuano. Thank you for listening to The UC Irvine Podcast. Our guest today is Roland Betancourt, UC Irvine Chancellor’s Professor of art history. A scholar of Byzantium culture, he also studies modern popular culture. His research lies at the intersection of the histories of science and technology, intellectual history, and the history of art. Along with multiple publications, he has written five books. The first four align with his medievalist side, but the most recent is titled Disneyland and the Rise of Automation: How Technology Created the Happiest Place On Earth . Professor Betancourt, thank you for joining us today. Roland Betancourt: It is a pleasure to be here. Capuano: Let’s begin with your chosen path. Why art history? Betancourt: I’ve always been drawn to the power of images. When I was in high school, I was fascinated by the idea that works of art had a power that not only sort of affected people in the past, but also that there was a sort of cultural cachet to knowing about art. And my mother, who worked in a blood bank, was very much like, “As a well-educated person, you should know about art history.” And so, I took AP Art History in my sophomore year of high school, and I really was very good at it. And so, it became this sort of passion that I thought, “Oh, this is only something – it’s not a hobby, but like something you should know about – it’s not something you really pursue. And so, it really began there and I became really fascinated by just the sort of power that art has in our lives. Capuano: Your academic investigations truly span the length of time. I mean, the Byzantine Empire lasted from the years 330 to 1453. Disneyland, which has commanded much of your attention in recent years, opened in 1955. What draws you to those distinctly different eras? Betancourt: I think in many ways there’s a lot of parallels between the type of work that the sort of art and culture of the Byzantine Empire did and the type of work that Disneyland does. When I was speaking to an Imagineer about my interests and telling him, I’m like, “I’m a medievalist and I’m working on Disneyland.” He said to me, “Why do you need Disneyland when you have Gothic cathedrals?” And I think that’s a great way of like recognizing the parallels. In many capacities, the medieval world was all about invested sensory experiences, creating spaces and places where you’re taken away from your daily life into some more spiritual, heavenly, something otherworldly. And for me, I think that’s very much in line with the ways what drew me originally to the Middle Ages and also what draws me to the theme park. It’s the very modern iteration and something that, in some ways, shouldn’t exist in our modern world, but it does. And I think that that’s something really fascinating to me. Capuano: What shouldn’t exist in our modern world? Betancourt: This sort of demarcated fantasy space that is so deeply immersive and inherently frivolous or trivial – in how most people think about it. Of course, it sells – so there’s a reason for it, just like any entertainment. But it really is a huge investment of creative power in a way that’s very strange to find in other aspects of our world. It’s something that we usually associate with like what artists do, not with the amount of money you would invest, not only on the artistry side, but also in the tech side of this world. Capuano: I, for one, am very thankful it exists. Since 2024, you’ve been serving as the Andrew W. Mellon Professor at the Center for Advanced Study in Visual Arts at the National Gallery of Arts in Washington, D.C. That term does end this summer. What has that journey looked like for you? Betancourt: It’s been really great. I did not apply for this. I got a phone call out of nowhere inviting me to serve as the Andrew Mellon Professor, and it was delightful. It’s two years where I get to have an amazing office looking over the Capitol and I get to just dedicate myself to my work. Despite the title “professor,” there is no professing that is being done. I purely have time to focus on my research and it’s been really productive, surrounded by very smart people who are also doing their work. It’s been a really, really wonderful experience and really generative. Capuano: You’ve talked about being able to focus on your work, which is fabulous, but what else stands out from your time away from UC Irvine? Betancourt: As academics, we spend a lot of time doing our work (laughs), which is to say we are working on specifically what we are pursuing at the time. And it’s been really great to just have the added creative freedom to be like, “Yes, you’re finishing this book, but you can also do some reading in areas that you haven’t been reading in.” Just do some exploration and thinking and having that freedom to be like, “What else do I want to do? Where has my trajectory brought me? What does the future hold?” So, it’s not only been productive in the sense of like concretely building toward what my projects have been and sort of completing the Disneyland project for instance, but also in thinking like, where does this research take me in the future? Capuano: Let’s talk about the Disneyland project. Your most recent book just published April 28 th , Disneyland and the Rise of Automation: How Technology Created the Happiest Place on Earth. How do you describe what it’s about? Betancourt: Depending on the audience, I will pitch it differently, I’ll say (laughs). In many ways, you know, the book is a history of Disneyland’s rise and the technology that made them possible. But for me, the book is much more. I like to say that it’s not just a book for Disneyland fans, it really is a book that thinks about the ways in which the theme park – as embodied by Disneyland, inaugurated by Disneyland – really acclimated us to the major changes happening in the mid-20th century with technology, particularly with the rise of what was named in 1952 as “automation.” And so, it is a history that traces not only the story of how Disneyland developed its rides, but also the story of how automation came to be in America, and the anxieties and tensions that arose around this – very much a concern that automation would replace human labor. And I think that in the era of AI, these stories are extremely important. And I think that’s the reason that the book speaks so powerfully to people who also might not care at all about Disney, but who want to know like, “How did we come to be comfortable around technology and automation? And how did we sort of resolve our anxieties? And how did we come to sort of – I like to use the word aestheticize – technology?” Because I think that’s really what the book is about: it’s how were automation, technology sort of aestheticized – made friendly, made palatable, made also into sort of spaces of leisure and recreation. Capuano: Can Walt Disney come back to make artificial intelligence friendlier? Betancourt: I think in many ways he’s doing that from (laughs) beyond the grave. I close the book by talking a little bit about automation and AI and you know, there’s a reason why we make all of our food delivery robots and all sorts of robots and AIs into like friendly, cute sounding names. It’s a way of like “Disneyfying” everything and some ways being like, “Oh, it’s not threatening, it’s just another animatronic as the ones you would know at a theme park.” Know and love. And so, I think that there is something very powerful. I mean, one of my favorite stories, which is actually very local – since Chipotle is based in Newport – is actually that Chipotle introduced a robotic arm to make its chips in 2022. And they called it “Chippy.” And the idea was that Chippy was not supposed to improve on the chip, but to keep all the human imperfections and keep the humanity behind the chip-making experience. So, even tortilla chips have a trace of these histories of the Disneyfied world of automation. Capuano: Chippy is one of us. Betancourt: Chippy is one of us. Capuano: What’s something that you learned during your research for the Disneyland book that truly floored you? Just something unexpected – your “Ha!” moment. Betancourt: I think early on, honestly, just the realization as I started doing this research – which really emerged by spending time in the theme park and thinking about what was it – you know, I thought I was going to be writing about castles and the Middle Ages and realizing that I was, as an art historian, I wasn’t talking about the theming, but really the technology. It came from like this idea that what seduced me the most in the theme park were the sort of jerks and stops of attractions. These sort of imperceptible spaces where like you see the workings of automation. [Sounds trackside at Matterhorn ride at Disneyland: the engaging of car’s mechanical breaks and ensuring ride announcement: “Remain seated, please. Permanacer sentados, por favor.”] And so, I think what really surprised me and really floored me was to recognize this, it being so important in the experience and then tracing its history and realizing: “Oh wait, Disneyland opens in July of 1955. Automation gets coined as a word in the popular parlance in 1952.1955 is when it’s reaching a fever pitch. We have three months after Disneyland’s opening a series of congressional hearings dedicated to the challenges of automation. And so, it really comes in a moment of massive change and consolidation around this idea. The project really sort of immediately came together in a way that was really shocking. And so, in some ways that initial shock and discovery was what took me along for the ride – pun’s intended (laughs). Capuano: (laughs) I appreciate that. Why do you think the timing was right for you to craft this book about Disneyland’s impact on presenting concepts of technology and automation of the world? I mean, at this point there’s a whole generation of people that think Disneyland and think, “Oh, that’s ‘old school.’” Betancourt: So I began this project in January of 2018. I had just come back from being on research leave for a year at Princeton from 2016 to 2017. And I was really trying to find a way to work on something local and really “dig where you stand”-type thinking. Like, “What can I do that’s not (laughs) Byzantium and very far away?” And I wanted something that like I could take my time in doing it and you know, the pandemic and all these other things really slowed down the project. But I really was about, “Just spend time at the park – it’s 20 minutes away – like, see what you can come up with.” And that’s really how the project developed. And I think in those seven to eight years, I really developed in my thinking alongside a lot of the conversations that we’ve been having. And so, it really became a very timely project about these questions about automation and AI as things were happening. I think we often – as academics, as people – I think there’s an instinctual understanding of where we’re going and we are seeing the sort of glacial movements of culture happening and I think I was following those traces. And I think it definitely led me to this moment where I’m very glad that the book had come out in the moment that it did because I think we are reaching sort of the fever pitch of where these conversations are going around AI and it makes the book a lot more important. But I really do love the idea that in some ways, like, yeah, Disney can almost feel “old school” to a lot of people. And I think especially in a place like Southern California where we have so many wonderful histories and like family histories of the “oldness of Disneyland.” Capuano: Hearing you talk about the stops and the jerks and the sounds of the attractions – as someone that did grow up in Orange County, it takes me right back to all of those sounds. Betancourt: Yeah. Capuano: Or depending on where you walk through the park, the songs that you know that you’re going to hear… Betancourt: Mm-hmm. Capuano: … in those particular geographies, it all just comes flooding back. Betancourt: I had someone who was interviewing me said to me, “You know, I had never thought about all these jerks and movements of the attractions, but after I read the book, I could remember them.” And I thought that was a really powerful way I keep mentioning this because it’s such a like… how deeply we, in some embodied way, remember these experiences of automation in theme parks, but we just don’t give voice to them because we don’t really have the vocabulary to articulate it. Capuano: Maybe we will get that vocabulary from reading your book. Betancourt: That is the hope. [Sounds from “Space Mountain” ride – space-themed music that plays at the beginning of the ride, sounds of the car ascending the track and a rider saying, “Oh, yeah!”] Capuano: You also teach a class at UC Irvine called “Disneyland: Art, Architecture and Operation.” You created this course. What inspired that? Betancourt: It was really a way of me thinking through the material as I was writing the book. It’s a history of Disneyland, but it’s also a history of just the technology that developed alongside it. And for me, it was a really generative way of thinking through this project. I am very grateful I taught the class when I did because I can tell you that as I was writing, I was using my PowerPoints from the class to remember what I had to say in many ways, which was really great. And I think that’s something that like when you work on a project for so long, you really begin to value the teaching that you do as a way of not only clarifying ideas, which is how we often talk about it, but also as a sort of reservoir of where your thinking was when you were looking into a particular subject. So, the course was very helpful. And it really is not your average Disneyland class – like it counts for general education requirements in both art and humanities and also in science and technology because we’re really digging deep into the history of technology. I wouldn’t say it’s a hard class… I know it’s not a hard class, but it’s a technical class in many ways. Capuano: It sounds comprehensive. Betancourt: It is comprehensive and I think that’s one the joys because I think one of the things that – as an academic – I think is really powerful, in working on a subject like Disneyland, is being able to really communicate and get people excited to learn about complicated things through a topic that they know intimately well or just that they really are excited about. Capuano: It’s my understanding the class returns when you return for fall quarter. Betancourt: It most definitely does. We’re already enrolling and I’m very excited about it. Capuano: If I were enrolled, what would I expect? Betancourt: A lot of my pictures of the weirdest corners of attractions… you’re not going to see the main characters, but you’re going to see a lot of tracks. [Sounds trackside at Big Thunder Mountain Railroad ride at Disneyland: train speeds by with clicking noises and riders scream] We’re going to talk a lot about the sort of behind the scenes, you know, how the magic works and understand like the history of these technologies and how they developed. One of the things about this class that I really love is knowing that there’s nothing else out there… Like, there are many colleagues throughout the region that teach classes on Disneyland, but this is really very much a part of my research and I’m very excited about the potential of just even having my book now to be able to like help guide this experience. And so, I’ve been thinking about that a lot and how exciting it’ll be. Capuano: Understandably. What do you hope your students take away from their time in your class about Disneyland? Betancourt: I sincerely believe that learning about the technology increases your appreciation and experience of Disneyland. You know, we have the idea that Disney’s very secretive and they don’t want you to learn about how anything works. But we forget that Walt Disney himself introduced Disneyland through his TV show, “Disneyland,” by telling people how things worked and showing them the behind the scenes of how they were developing the park. You have great lines there where they literally say things like, “It’s not pixie dust, it’s an industrial conveyor.” Like they’re very clear about what they’re doing. And I think Walt Disney understood that by knowing how the technology worked, you could go into a place like the Tiki Room… [music and clicking of birds from “Walt Disney’s Enchanted Tiki Room” in the background] … and have a real sense of awe of the bravado of all the work, the different artists forms of art from engineering to sculpture and painting that had to come together to make this a reality. [Tiki Room ambient sounds end] And that’s what I really hope that students take away: a deep appreciation for the technology at work – even in the rides that, like the “Tiki Room,” that might not be the first thing that they’re clamoring to get on. And I also hope that they’ll take the knowledge that they learn about these attractions and how they work into the real world because most of the systems that I talk about that power these attractions also power everything in our lives, from the movement of our traffic patterns to baggage claim at an airport. And so, I really hope that there’s a visual language and legibility of technology that really you can go out into the world and like filter out through the noise and make it meaningful. I think one of the most formative things that I always talk about is that becoming an art historian, you have terms and vocabulary to describe things in the world – like columns. You can know the difference between Doric, Ionic and Corinthian. And I remember learning these in AP Art History in sophomore year of high school and suddenly I was overwhelmed by how many columns I was seeing. And that’s a really amazing thing to like be able to go through the world and no longer see noise or filler, but actual like meaning and be able to communicate that. And so that’s ultimately like the big picture reason as to, “Why is my child taking a class on Disneyland?” That’s the reason why. Capuano: I absolutely appreciate the idea of: “My students are going to learn something that they can take and apply and translate to their real world experiences from Disneyland.” I think that’s a magnificent aspiration. Betancourt: That’s the goal behind all of this. Capuano: How many times have you been to the Disneyland park? Betancourt: Hundreds. I stopped counting at I think 200 to 300. I was spending a lot of time in the park. These aren’t like full days where I do rope drop and stay there till closing. But, you know, spending a few hours and all that. Individual visits, it’s definitely in the hundreds. And so, I think that’s really been what informed a lot of this project was really the on the ground observation. Capuano: So, what’s one thing that someone should pay special attention to the next time they have the treat of visiting Disneyland? Betancourt: I always say look where you’re not supposed to look. And I don’t mean go behind a rope or anything like that. I mean, when you’re in a ride, like look in the opposite direction of where the action’s going on. Look down at the track or look up at the track. Look at how vehicles are moving. Listen. I think listening is one of the most important things you can do in any automated space, like an amusement park. Listen to the sounds of brakes, pistons, all the things that you would not normally pay attention to – the things that you’re in some ways expected, encouraged to ignore. Because I think that’s really where you get to see the mechanical ballet of the technology at work. And I think it’s also a really wonderful way of being present in a place that can be very chaotic. I recently was walking through the park and very attuned to the soundscapes and it was actually a really wonderful way of like grounding yourself. I was trying to record things like audio from the park, and I was just very excited by being able to walk around and be like, “Oh, this is a good soundscape. Like you have the screams from Splash Mountain, you have the noise of the crowd in the background. [Sounds from next to Tiana’s Bayou Adventure, including screams from riders, light crowd conversations and ambient music] It’s the same way of like building a visual vocabulary. It’s about sort of dissecting sound and hearing like what is happening around you. Capuano: And that’s hard to do in a truly overstimulating place. Betancourt: Completely. It’s probably the hardest thing that we can do. I think just generally we’re far better equipped to deal with our visual world and make meaning from it. Whereas I think, beyond language, I think we’re quite bad at making sense of sounds. And so, I think it’s one of the great things and Disney’s a wonderful place because not only is it very crowded and overstimulating, but it also is a place that knows the importance of sound. So, you’re hearing the, the transitions of themes between areas of the park. You are hearing different sort of experiences, whether it be someone riding the riverboat versus someone screaming on their way down through Splash Mountain, or just the idle chatter of people waiting in a line. It really captures a lot of what the experience is. [Sounds from “Pinocchio’s Daring Journey” ride: Jiminy Cricket says, “You’re on your way now!” and then instrumental music of “When You Wish Upon A Star” plays for a bit] Capuano: So, what is next for you? Betancourt: I’m going in a series of different directions. One of the things that I’ve been very excited about doing is pursuing a project that thinks a little bit – and very much coming out of my Disney work – thinks about the ways in which corporations have taught us to behave through employee training programs. And so, I’ve been working on this book project about, you know, this history of training, like: “How should the model employee, look? What should their hygiene be? What should their grooming be? How do you behave? How do you smile? How do you act?” Things that I think begin in corporate spaces and trickle into our world and begin to filter a lot of our assumptions about who we are, who others are, how should we be ourselves in different ways. And I’m also looking at projects that sort of bring together these considerations of modern American corporations with also my work on the Byzantine Empire to think a little bit in sort of longer terms of histories of automation and technology and things that for many millennia have been talked about as like processes that make objects and works of art that were not made by human hands – this idea of sort of something that could be miraculously made or made by technology. So, these are some of the projects, but there are many other things that I’m working on and a few other books that are already in the pipeline. [Sounds from “Snow White’s Enchanted Wish” ride at Disneyland: the Seven Dwarfs sing the phrase, “Hi ho, hi ho. It’s off to work we go” followed by a few musical bars of the song] I’m very excited by [music stops playing] what happens next. Really even with the book… I think one of the things that’s really difficult about when a book finally comes out – it’s sort of like a moment of sadness because you’re removing something from yourself and putting it onto the world. And then it’s that other amazing moment when you get to see the lives that it can take in the world. And so, I think that that’s one of the things that I’m really looking forward to in the moment. And – especially as I have all these other projects going on – I’m trying to take a moment to like also be mindful of enjoying that and seeing these lives that this work that I’ve put in so much time and effort into can take. Because it’s easy to always be like, “Let’s move on to the next thing.” That’s definitely in my character. Capuano: Well, we’re here to help you celebrate a little bit and experience it and be in the moment of your book. Congratulations. Betancourt: Thank you. I really appreciate it. Capuano: Thank you so much for joining us today, Professor Betancourt. Betancourt: It’s been great. Capuano: One last question. Favorite attraction at Disneyland? Betancourt: It has to be the “Matterhorn.” I feel contractually obliged because the Matterhorn has taught me everything I know about Disneyland. I met many of my friends there in the park. And so, it really holds an immensely special place in my heart. Even though, before this all started, I would’ve said something like “Pirates of the Caribbean” or “The Haunted Mansion,” for like the really sort of lush themed, narrative experiences. But yeah, the Matterhorn has to be it. Capuano: We’ll all ride it the next time we go to the park. Betancourt: Please do. Brace your core and just enjoy the ride. Capuano: (Laughs) Excellent advice. [Sounds from the “Matterhorn Bobsleds” line: yodeling song and ambient chit chat from people waiting in line.] I’m Cara Capuano. Thank you for listening to our conversation. For the latest UC Irvine news, please visit news.uci.edu. The UC Irvine Podcast is a production of Strategic Communications and Public Affairs at the University of California, Irvine. Please subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. [Yodeling tune finishes and ambient sounds from the “Matterhorn Bobsleds” ride in motion begin, including the roar of the Abominable Snowman (aka “Harold”) and screams and laughter of guests]
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